Thanks for all the advice so far!! I will have to start making a list of things to get on my next trip to JDL. As for OM what is the cheapest stuff I can get, so far I think the horse bed pellets are the cheapest at $6 for a 40lb bag if that is sufficient for OM. I am not really looking for feeding since I will be doing that with the urea. Do you think that the SLS in the BL Soil Conditioner could have caused it??? I think I may have applied it too liberally last year.

Mightyquinn wrote:Thanks for all the advice so far!! I will have to start making a list of things to get on my next trip to JDL. As for OM what is the cheapest stuff I can get, so far I think the horse bed pellets are the cheapest at $6 for a 40lb bag if that is sufficient for OM.

For OM that's great, but decay on those can be s-l-o-w, at least at first. If you could get (nearly free) waste sawdust from somewhere, of non-treated wood, that would be perfect. But unless you know a carpenter, that can be difficult.

I am not really looking for feeding since I will be doing that with the urea. Do you think that the SLS in the BL Soil Conditioner could have caused it??? I think I may have applied it too liberally last year.

Unlikely. Let's say you used a gallon of conditioner per thousand square feet (extreme overkill). That's 80 ounces of 24% SLS, or 19.2 ounces of SLS per thousand. Sodium comprises only 5.5% of the molecule by weight (quite a bit less by atom count as sodium is comparatively heavy).

That puts you at 1.05 ounces of sodium per thousand square feet per year, or nothing to worry about in most climates (yours is not an exception to that rule).

Mightyquinn wrote:Thanks for all the advice so far!! I will have to start making a list of things to get on my next trip to JDL. As for OM what is the cheapest stuff I can get, so far I think the horse bed pellets are the cheapest at $6 for a 40lb bag if that is sufficient for OM. I am not really looking for feeding since I will be doing that with the urea. Do you think that the SLS in the BL Soil Conditioner could have caused it??? I think I may have applied it too liberally last year.

Cheapest OM ???? lets do some math to get costs per 1000 pounds.....

Horse bed pellets $6 for 40 lb = $150.00 per 1000 pounds
Milorganite $12 per 36 pound bag = $333.00 per 1000 pounds
Cracked corn $13 per 50 pound bag = $260.00 per 1000 pounds
compost $25-30 per cubic yard {about 1000-1200 pounds}

With 9,000 sq ft at your current om level, I would suggest a minimum of 1000 lb per 1000 sq ft, so you are looking at a total of 9000 pounds of om to help push those levels upwards at a decent clip


A real eye opener, eh ?????

You make a very good point Han!!!! I will definitely reconsider that idea, I know it is frowned upon here but I was thinking of maybe core aerating before adding the compost to help in get down deeper.

There is a custom wood shop right around the corner from me, I might stop in there and see what they can do for me! As for the high sodium numbers any ideas what else could be causing it???

Here is a sample of what my soil looks like just in case someone was wondering or was curious!

Mightyquinn wrote:There is a custom wood shop right around the corner from me, I might stop in there and see what they can do for me!

Well, that's bloody convenient. They might be selling the stuff, or paying to have it hauled. If the former, you can certainly buy some. If the latter, they may very well give it to you.

As for the high sodium numbers any ideas what else could be causing it???

They're not that high. 24 pounds per acre is reasonable, it's your CEC that makes it look bad (and few plants will have a problem with it as they're really very little per cubic foot). Saturation percentages rose because the CEC showed up as radically different. I'd suspect a sample variation when they were taken, actually...but even if not, this is nothing to worry overmuch about at this point.

I have compost topdressed both with and w/o core aerating first- I have never had any weed issues doing it with core aerating first,but I do drop a good pre emergent right after aerating and spreading the compost.Certainly getting the topdressing down in all those 2-3 inch deep holes gives it a tremendous head start in getting down to root levels and will improve the moisture retention in your soil to reduce your watering needs.If you do core aerate first,do 3 passes at different angles if possible to maximize the amount of holes per sq ft for the compost to fill.

If you happen to have a chipper/shredder, running the wood pellets through it first breaks them down into something resembling a coarse powder, it breaks down much faster (and is easier to spread). I think you get a 40% conversion of sawdust into OM, grains are around 20%, Milorganite is around 10%. Not sure what compost is, Morph or Andy would probably know.

The newest test has an order of magnitude less in exchange cations. It seems very significantly lower. Im inferring the great swing is because the CEC is so low.

I'm not seeing any "order of magnitude" changes. After accounting for the differences in test depths, this is close to what I'd expect from a sandy topsoil (alright, very sandy) on top of a shallow subsoil that contains (probably) some clay.

Any chance that we're looking at "new construction syndrome"?

Yes, the house was built in 2006 and in a new housing development which use to be a farmers field which I think they grew cotton in. Andy, what is the best way to apply the epsom salt and do you have any recommendations for boron?

Yes, the house was built in 2006 and in a new housing development which use to be a farmers field which I think they grew cotton in. Andy, what is the best way to apply the epsom salt and do you have any recommendations for boron?

Yeah, "new construction syndrome". Pretty visible in your numbers. Chances are that the topsoil was removed and sold, and then only a little was put back at the end of the building process.

Epsom Salts can be mixed into Lime or fertilizers when you are going to apply them.

As far as Boron is concerned, 1.5 tablespoons per thousand sq ft. Use the Micronutrient Application Guide for application instructions.

PS: You also need Copper and Zinc. Any reason why you picked only Boron?

Mightyquinn wrote:Yes, the house was built in 2006 and in a new housing development which use to be a farmers field which I think they grew cotton in. Andy, what is the best way to apply the epsom salt and do you have any recommendations for boron?

I know it well. At the very least, once you manage to get the soil they left behind to transform a bit, the numbers start looking a lot better!

I started with B horizon (dead) soil in 2005 myself. Now, in 2011 (almost 2012!), it's seriously improved, and it didn't take me six years. Most of the work was done by 2008.

Well, it is comforting to know that my soil can get there one day!!! As for the Boron, I already had some borax left over from last year and what do I need to add for the copper and zinc? Can I add them all together at one time? Thank You!!

Copper sulfate and Zinc Sulfate can be found on EBAY. Yes, they can be added together.

at what rates? Thanks

Copper: 1 tablespoon per 1000 sq ft. Zinc: 3 tablespoons per 1000 sq ft.