Hi guys, please help me in my quest to have the best yard in the neighborhood next summer! I've been lurking for the last month or so but didn't want to post until I had a soil test for you (I actually got two!). Let me say that this site and its members are amazing and I've learned more than I thought possible in quite a short time.

After seeing the lawns on this site I would love KBG, but it would get annihilated down here on the coast. With that in mind, my goals for the centipede:

1. Avoid any patches of die-off! Essential as bermuda and crabgrass will both grow in to outcompete centipede seedlings.
2. Mitigate the poor water retention of the soil with healthy grass. As centipede isn't especially thick, an inch of water seems to make the soil soggy, but with no rain the grass appears distressed in 5 days.
3. Have the tightest, evenest, greenest turf in the development. No professionals and no winterkill from the stolons climbing over each other (<2 lb N).

Stats: 6.5k total yard, 1.5k front and side; rennovated front and sides last year (what crabgrass hell in 100 degree weather that was!). From the bottle soil test, my topsoil appears to be 50% sand, 40% silt and <10% clay. This layer goes ~6 inches with what looks like imported sand (coarse, bright orange) for the next 4-6 and then a clay hardpan.

I put down some high N "Southern Weed & Feed" (atrazine, and no, I do not plan to use it again) in May (1lb N/1k) but missed the late summer application as I was on a 3 month trip and got back after October. It looks like the yard needs some Potassium and Phosphorous but it's not fully dormant and I don't want to trick it into growing with fertilizer.

So, what can I do over the winter? What micronutrients does it need?

Test results:
From Clemson University:



Logan Labs:



And finally, a shot of the front yard from back in the summer(yes, I know centipede is more lime than blue like your grass.)

I'm not versed in reading soil test, but wanted to drop a "Hello and welcome!" in here.

I LOVE a nice centipede lawn. Good luck, and I look forward to more pics.

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Um... How do I say this politely....

Centipede isn't the stuff you want if you want to be a lawn nut.... It's called the "Lazy man's grass" for a reason....
It's main attraction is that it does very well when it's fed a steady diet of "Leave me alone"....
It won't ever produce a thick, lush, tightly knit lawn that fends off all weeds.... It just won't.... The stuff more or less hates lawn maintenance beyond watering and mowing short.
It will die when you try to love on it and feed it extra fertilizer, etc.... Literally....

Down there in Charleston - you would be better off growing St Augustine.... They call it "Charleston grass" for a reason.... Not just that, but it will form a very nice, tightly knit turf that does fend off weeds pretty well... AND... It looks just like Centipede for the most part... The main difference is the flower spikes look totally different.... And it loves fertilizer and lawn maintenance...

Care wise.. It needs ACID soil to live - absolutely NO lime and no phosphate.... Fertilize 1x per year in late spring once it has greened up.... Absolute Maximum fertilizer that stuff can handle is usually about 1/2 lb N/1,000 sq-ft per year.

Dumb question - are you really sure you actually have Centipede and not St. Augustine?

Thanks

Absolutely certain it's centipede. I rennovated it last year. To say this politely back to you, I am very well aware of the limitations of fertilizer on the grass. I watched 3 neighbors kill their yards last year with too much fertilizer and water. I've certainly considered St. A. but I'm not prepared to re-rennovate this coming year.

I would like to improve my soil as I'm able and rely on good husbandry to help the centipede outcompete the weeds. It performed very well this year (especially compared to my neighbors) and even suppressed some bermuda that crept in.

I'm not an expert on centipede, but MW is right to my knowledge. Do nothing--it likes a soil that's smokingly acidic (yours isn't), dislikes feeding, and doesn't particularly want a balanced soil.

MorpheusPA wrote:I'm not an expert on centipede, but MW is right to my knowledge.

-1. MW just said "Hi!" John actually shared some knowledge.

Or, possibly +1 because all I said was "Hi!", which is all that is required with centipede.

I disagree with John on the quality of centipede, though. I've seen some very nice centipede lawns.

Got any close up pics, Joe?

Good luck, bud! And keep us posted this next spring and summer!

It was five thirty in the morning and pouring. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

I understand that centipede doesn't need much Nitrogen to be happy, but is there some reason he shouldn't try to improve the Potassium and Phosphorus numbers?

What about tweaking the micros?
Wouldn't it help the overall soil health to get these in line?

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Ohio2112 wrote:What about tweaking the micros?
Wouldn't it help the overall soil health to get these in line?

Is the goal to make the "perfect" soil, or to encourage turf growth?

Instead of thinking about how centipede "thrives" in low-nutrient soil, perhaps we should think in terms of how it "out-competes" in low-nutrient soil. When certain macro & micro nutrient levels are quoted as "optimal", that's because those levels help the desired crop (e.g. bluegrass) out-compete undesired weedy plants. (In some cases when the weed species is similar to the turf species, you're helping both.) If you try to improve the soil beyond what the centipede needs or can utilize, then it can benefit competing species, not the desired grass.

I'm not an expert on centipede grass and there may also be physiological reasons that it needs low-nutrient soils. Or maybe the extra micros would help - I'm just thinking out loud.

I bookmarked this topic earlier this morning because I don't know whether P, K, or micros would be great or worse for Centipede. I plan to research this evening. Remember the first rule: Do No Harm.

I know nothing about centipede grass, so I'm also thinking out loud. I'm new to the whole turf thing, but there are many garden perennials that need poor, lean soils to grow healthy and thrive. If you try to grow them nutrient rich soil, they tend to get very leggy and become prone to disease. I certainly can't explain the scientific reason behind it, but there are many plants in this category. Like I said, I'm also just thinking out loud. It will be interesting to hear what Andy has to say after he's had a chance to research a bit.

OK - here's what I found...

Potassium is OK for Centipede. Phosphorus is not. Micro's are OK.

Do you want to play with the micro's? Boron, Copper and Zinc are all low.

Andy, I would like to adjust the micronutrients. I've purchased borax as well as zinc and copper sulfates. The yard is just under 6.5k sqft.

I have to wonder what it is about the acidity that everyone mentions that makes centipede do well. Obviously the soil needs some potassium, but how much until the pH is pushed too high? I would think that my best long term plan is good husbandry (water/mowing) and gradual increase of organic matter to bump the CEC.

A common discussion is the chlorosis of centipede, so I have to imagine that part of the issue is the low pH required for maximum iron availability. Or perhaps it's the fact that too much phosphorous reacts with the iron.

I've spent quite a while considering the point about making the soil too fertile and whether that would simply result in other plants moving in. However, from my experience the last two years, most other plants can't survive the low mowing that centipede gets. Even crabgrass suffers at a 1.5" deck height. There is also a selective herbicide called sethoxydim (trade name Vantage) that will kill other grasses in centipede like bermuda or crab.

And finally, while called a lazy man's grass, it obviously does need some fertilizer to do well. The first picture is the edge of my yard in the summer of 09 next to my neighbor's, who has not fertilized at all and also mowed too short, too infrequently (more than 1/3 at a time = 1x month). I had fertilized at just under a pound of N/1000sqft 2 weeks prior.



Here's a shot of my yard in Apr 09. The previous owner did very little to take care of it. You can see the very thin grass and the weeds hanging around. There were none of these weeds in April this year but I did not apply a pre-emergent.



Now, here's a comparison of the yard in Apr 09 vs May 10- this is the closest I have to side-by-side shots.

Ahh, Joe, Phosphorus is definitely an antagonist of Iron. But (and it's a BIG but) I have no idea why it seems that Centipede is overly sensitive to the interaction. As a matter of fact, the writings that I have read are so similar to each other that I wonder whether it isn't "internet circular thinking" --- everyone is quoting everyone else, but it's difficult to find any real original research that proves anything concrete.

As for your micronutrients, 1 tablespoon of Twenty Mule Team Laundry Soap per 1000 sq ft, 1.5 tablespoons of Copper Sulfate per 1000 sq ft and 3 tablespoons of Zinc Sulfate per 1000 sq ft should do it for now.

See the Micronutrient Application Guide for application instructions.

I just read in Turfgrass Science and Culture that centipede grass is prone to iron deficiency. Came across this post and then saw that while reading.

All I am saying is that you should acknowledge what Centipede is and it's limitations - and not try to force Centipede to be St Augustine or Bermuda grass.... In the long run - it's not the sort of grass that rewards high maintenance and tons of Lawn Loving....

If you look at the typical Centipede fertilizer... it's slow release 18-0-18 with a ton of Iron and a good dose of minor elements.... It works out pretty well

If you follow Clemson University's recommended regimen - 1 drop of slow release fertilizer in June - and follow it up with Iron applications and maybe some K through the summer... you should be able to keep a nice green turf, but without the risk of winter kill if this winter all of a sudden decides to come... You also won't see a giant outbreak of Bermuda all of a sudden like if you really start pushing the Nitrogen....

The biggest thing that really seems to help through the summer is regular watering and mowing routines... Centipede around here does not do well in drought conditions....

Thanks