Hammbone's Soil Test Results

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Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby Hammbone » December 14th, 2011, 4:59 pm

Okay, I need some insight/advice based on my soil test results. Originally I did a “cheap” ph, P, and K test through the local extension office this past summer, but recently decided to get a more comprehensive test performed by Logan Labs as I would like to go organic starting 2012 and need some advice on what to do.

In a nut shell, here’s where I’ve been thus far:
Dec2010 – Move into current house (did nothing but mow and observe until mid-summer)
-According to neighbors, previous homeowner mowed very short – I mowed at 3.25” until late fall, then dropped to 2.75”.
Jul 2011 – Submitted samples for first soil test (results; ph=6.8, P=28ppm, & K=162ppm)
Jul-Aug2011 – 3apps 2wks apart of Tenacity as postM on Nimblewill (killed all other weeds too)
8/23/11 – Scalped, dethatched, swept yard
9/7/11 – Core aerate, seeded (TTTF @ 4lbs/Ksqft), starter fert (15-23-10) @ 0.5lbN/Ksqft
9/23/11 – Milo @ 1lb N/Ksqft
10/28/11 – Milo @ 1lb N/Ksqft
11/16/11 – Urea @ 1lb N/Ksqft
12/5/11 – Pulled soil sample core plugs and submitted to Logan for testing. Plugs captured soil in the 0”-3” depth.

I went ahead and manually transposed the PDF data in text below (sorry, the numbers lined up when I typed them). I don't know what all this means, but at first glance it looks good. (I think).

Sample Depth (in)...........................3
Total Exchange Capacity (M.E.).....12.28
pH..............................................7.00
Organic Matter (%)........................5.92
Sulfur (ppm)..................................14
Mehlich III Phosphorous (lb/acre)......202
Calcum (lb/acre)...desired value.......1670
..............................value found.....1708
Magnesium (lb/acre).desired value......176
..............................value found.....275
Potassium (lb/acre).desired value......191
..............................value found.....265
Sodium (lb/acre)..........................52
Calcium (60 to 70%)................69.52
Magnesium (10 to 20%)............18.66
Potassium (2 to 5%)................5.53
Sodium (0.5 to 3%).................1.86
Other Bases (variable).............4.40
Exchangable Hydrogen (10 to 15%)...0.00
Boron (ppm)........................0.75
Iron (ppm).........................186
Manganese (ppm)....................88
Copper (ppm).......................2.33
Zinc (ppm).........................6.85
Aluminum (ppm).....................403
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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby MorpheusPA » December 14th, 2011, 5:29 pm

There's not terribly much to criticize here. No lime until (and if) pH slips back under 6.5. Magnesium is a whisper high, but nothing that should concern you. I like the potassium number but if it went up or down it still wouldn't bother me. You have vast margin in either direction. Phosphorus is on the nose for neutral pH, but again, up or down a bit wouldn't concern me (I'd rather see it go up than down, though).

Iron's trim, particularly at neutral pH. Milorganite or Lily Miller Moss Out will help that. Spray with iron if you want, or not.
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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby Hammbone » December 14th, 2011, 8:15 pm

Thanks Morph. So here's my 2012 plan, let me know what you think;
I'm going to dormant overseed in Feb/Mar w/ more TTTF. Plan to tackle crabgrass postM with Drive XLR8, feed w/organics in May & Sept, urea in Nov. Aside from that I'll mow high, follow 1/3 rule, & water when needed. I was going to attempt using SBM, but if I need iron I'll just use Milo. Do I need to use soil conditioner or Kelp Help? Compost Tea?

Lastly, what does it mean that my exchangable hydrogen is 0.00? Should I be concerned? Do I need to take any steps to correct this?

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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby Barley » December 14th, 2011, 8:40 pm

Exchangeable hydrogen always equals zero when the pH is 7 or above. As your pH drifts down that number will go up.There is nothing for you to do but heed Andy and Morpheus' advice and don't worry about pH or exchangeable hydrogen. If your soil is in the proper balance the pH will be perfect and so will exchangeable hydrogen. Now, what exchangeable hydrogen is and does is for another day.

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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby MorpheusPA » December 14th, 2011, 9:01 pm

+1 Exchangeable H should be around zero as pH approaches seven. That's normal, and you don't really need any. Grasses (most plants) acidify their local areas by pumping out hydrogen when they pump in something else. Otherwise, if they yank a Ca++ ion from the soil, the charge would build up and they'd eventually give out little lightning strikes to the soil to equalize. This wouldn't be good for the grass. :-) Oversimplified--it's the way ion pumps work by trading one thing for another, really.

So they pour out two H+ ions to keep the charges balanced. If you noticed they just took in an alkaline-reacting ion and pumped out two acidic-reacting ones, you're right.

But the upshot is that available hydrogen in the soil isn't important. Plants get their required hydrogen (quite a lot is required, actually) from water.
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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby MorpheusPA » December 14th, 2011, 9:03 pm

Hammbone wrote:Do I need to use soil conditioner or Kelp Help? Compost Tea?


No and no, respectively, if you're happy with your soil's workability and the bacterial/fungal balances seem OK. If you're not, or if you have major flooding, then the answers would change...
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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby andy10917 » December 14th, 2011, 11:35 pm

If you don't like your soil, send it to me. I'd take that soil any day.
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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby Hammbone » December 15th, 2011, 12:28 am

andy10917 wrote:If you don't like your soil, send it to me. I'd take that soil any day.

What!? That's it? That's all I get from Andy? ...I'll take it that I don't need to do anything right now. And to be honest, I'd rather be lucky than good - especially when it comes to a topic I'm not proficient at.

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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby andy10917 » December 15th, 2011, 8:17 am

Nah. It was 10:30pm and I was tired. More to follow when I get home tonight. I bookmarked it for follow-up.
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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby andy10917 » December 15th, 2011, 10:05 pm

There is very, very little that the soil needs. It's in very good shape. Listen, I'm going to contradict my normal opinion, just to give you something to do. I'd like to see you add 2-3 lbs of Elemental Sulfur per 1000 sq ft to your soil next Spring. You might as well shoot for perfection.

Yeah, the Iron is not that high, and the Boron could use a bit of a bump -- but I'm stretching to find things to have you do. Let me know if you want to play with the Boron...
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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby Hammbone » December 16th, 2011, 12:32 pm

Thanks for the input Andy. This is where I step back and plead complete ignorance.

andy10917 wrote:There is very, very little that the soil needs. It's in very good shape. Listen, I'm going to contradict my normal opinion, just to give you something to do. I'd like to see you add 2-3 lbs of Elemental Sulfur per 1000 sq ft to your soil next Spring. You might as well shoot for perfection.

Just for my own educational purposes, what does the sulfur do for me? Furthermore, what product(s) do I use to add sulfur? (will the lawn smell like rotten eggs?)
Yeah, the Iron is not that high,...

Okay, I've read Morph's article on spray iron applications - I can handle that. But here's the question; since my main stand is TTTF, is higher iron as essential (I know the KBG really likes the iron).
...and the Boron could use a bit of a bump -- but I'm stretching to find things to have you do. Let me know if you want to play with the Boron...

More ignorance here; what's the Boron going to do for me?
(BTW - I don't usually find myself "looking" for things to do - the wife tends to keep her honey-do list well stocked. Especially her secret honey-do list that I don't know about until the 11th hour)
Nonetheless, with all that said, I want to do things right. By nature I'm the type of person where if I'm going to do something it's "go big or go home". I'm either all in or not at all.
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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby Barley » December 16th, 2011, 12:52 pm

Since you mentioned that you want to do things the right way, I feel comfortable telling you that for your next test, take samples from 3" - 4" down. That is the root zone and where you want your nutrients to be in the right balance.

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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby andy10917 » December 16th, 2011, 1:30 pm

Just for my own educational purposes, what does the sulfur do for me? Furthermore, what product(s) do I use to add sulfur? (will the lawn smell like rotten eggs?)


Ahhhh, chemistry confusion! Sulfur doesn't really smell. Sulfur Dioxide or Hydrogen Sulfide are what smell like rotten eggs. Elemental Sulfur will slowly convert to Sulfuric Acid, which will create other compounds and will lower the pH during the process. Not to worry - you won't be generating massive quantities of Sulfuric Acid, and what you do generate will immediately react with other nearby nutrients.

Elemental Sulfur can be found in small quantities as "garden sulfur", even sometimes at big-box stores. You'll overpay. It can be found at farm stores, etc. much cheaper. I have an online store that sells it for roughly a dollar a pound (for 10 lbs) or less than 50 cents a pound (for 50 lbs), but shipping of 50 lb bags is prohibitive.

PS: Do not allow anyone to convince you that Aluminum Sulfate is a good way to lower pH (and many will try). You're replacing a simple problem with a more complex one if you do that.

How big is your lawn in sq ft?

The issue with Sulfur is that it has antifungal properties. The good fungi with the bad fungi. But knocking your pH down a bit is going to give you a boost in nutrient availability.

what's the Boron going to do for me?


Without getting overly technical, Boron is a key to the unlocking of other nutrients (especially Calcium). Nobody believes me, but a teensy bit of Boron (like a tablespoon per 1000 sq ft) can make a big change in the overall health of the lawn. But Boron is toxic to some plants at as little as 2 PPM (grass isn't one of them).

Your point about "go big or go home" is well known on this forum - most of us feel that anything that is worth doing is a target for doing in an excellent way. That's why we do the things we do...
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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby Hammbone » December 16th, 2011, 2:35 pm

andy10917 wrote:Elemental Sulfur will slowly convert to Sulfuric Acid, which will create other compounds and will lower the pH during the process.

So is that the point? To lower the pH? I thought a neutral 7.0 was a good thing. Also, at what level should the sulfur "ideally" be?

How big is your lawn in sq ft?

Ah, sorry. My whole lawn (turf area) is about 32,000sqft. BUT, I'm primarily focusing on making the the front (~7,200sqft) my pet project - for now. Don't get me wrong, the back will get still get the fundamentals.

Without getting overly technical, Boron is a key to the unlocking of other nutrients (especially Calcium). Nobody believes me, but a teensy bit of Boron (like a tablespoon per 1000 sq ft) can make a big change in the overall health of the lawn. But Boron is toxic to some plants at as little as 2 PPM (grass isn't one of them).

At what levels would you be happy with Boron to be?

Your point about "go big or go home" is well known on this forum - most of us feel that anything that is worth doing is a target for doing in an excellent way. That's why we do the things we do...

Hehe, yeah....and it drives my wife bonkers! Oh where to begin...
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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby andy10917 » December 16th, 2011, 3:01 pm

So is that the point? To lower the pH? I thought a neutral 7.0 was a good thing. Also, at what level should the sulfur "ideally" be?


Ummm, yeah. Neutral is not optimal - grasses do best between pH 6.3 and 6.8. As the pH rises above 6.8, some elements become less available and the chemistry changes. As far as Sulfur is concerned, good numbers are between 20 and 300, dependent on the rest of the nutrients. It is also defined as needing to be between 30% and 50% (I use 40% unless there are mitigating factors) of the Phosphorus level. Is that complex enough for you?

Ah, sorry. My whole lawn (turf area) is about 32,000sqft. BUT, I'm primarily focusing on making the the front (~7,200sqft) my pet project - for now. Don't get me wrong, the back will get still get the fundamentals.


Ha! I'm eight years into my project and the back yard is still waiting for me. I messed it up with a major disruption of the soil in 2001. Long story.

The reason I asked was to figure out the amount of Elemental Sulfur you need. 20 lbs would be a good place to start for 7,200 sq ft.

At what levels would you be happy with Boron to be?


It depends. I used to say 1 PPM. Recently I've studied data saying 1/1000th of the Calcium level, but not more than 3 PPM. That level is only for the most-aggressive users.
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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby MorpheusPA » December 16th, 2011, 3:54 pm

I tend to ignore the S = 0.4 P equation myself in my own soil. If I didn't, I'd require 150 PPM, and that's so not going to happen as the amount to be added would be quite prohibitive.

Generally, if numbers aren't under 20, I'm not going to go into hysterics about it. Mine's sitting around 40 PPM.
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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby andy10917 » December 16th, 2011, 3:58 pm

I didn't say that I go crazy about Sulfur levels, either. I answered the question about what the "ideal level" was.
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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby MorpheusPA » December 16th, 2011, 4:06 pm

True, but reassurance. Otherwise Hammbone may push for the exact perfect S level.

There's no real need to do that as sulfur is used almost everywhere--but in exceedingly small amounts. It's rarely a limiting factor for plant growth in reasonable amounts.

In my case, S = 0.08 P. Or thereabouts. :-)
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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby Barley » December 16th, 2011, 4:13 pm

My two cents on sulfur are that it's not a bad idea to have some headroom to accommodate potassium sulfate, iron sulfate, gypsum, etc. additions.

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Re: Hammbone's Soil Test Results

Postby andy10917 » December 16th, 2011, 4:31 pm

My spreadsheets that I use for my recommendations account for the Sulfur in Sulfates. And there is generally so much headroom that I have never seen a case where the Sulfur levels were a problem.
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