First of all I'd like to point out that I'm just doing my front yard this year. Without a sprinkler system, and a busy schedule, the front is all I can handle. I'd like to lay out my schedule (advice accepted) and then get some seed selection advice.

*Edited per advice
July 25 - RU lawn - dethatch
July 25 -Aug 8 - Water and reapply RU if necessary
Aug 9 - Apply starter fert, apply seed, roll in seed
Aug 9 - Aug30 - keep seeds damp
Aug 30 - End of growing season - mow when ready, continune to apply millorganite as often as I eat bowls of cereal

I can post some pictures of my current lawn soon so I have something to compare to next year...and the year following etc...

I live in St. Paul Minnesota and I'm wondering about seed selection/supplier. I have a 3000 sq foot front lawn. I'm wondering if I should just follow the preselected varieties suggested here:
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Suppliers (suggestions?)
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Before Pictures for future reference

Front Pics





Good Side (North)


Bad Side (Facing South Sun)


Close-ups

GET YOUR SEED NOW!!!!!! GET YOUR SEED NOW!!!!!! GET YOUR SEED NOW!!!!!!

Use the strongest RU concentrate to get the fastest kill. You are further north than I am so I would start earlier by about 2 weeks. There was A LOT of work to do after the kill and u need plenty of time to get it all done. I killed 2500 sq ft, you have 3000. Note what I did with the washers on my lawnmower to get the blade real low. That enabled me to cut and bag most of the dead grass. Then I used a weed wacker on the dead lawn and that removed most of what was left. Then I rented an aerator and ran it up and down and ALL AROUND my lawn for 2 hours. It beat the hell out of me but there were millions of plugs all over the place. Watered the plugs and they turned to soil. When I dropped the seeds I got great seed to soil contact. Once you have that, all you need to do is keep the seed wet for 3 weeks till you get them all germinated.


Here is my renovation:

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I would start two weeks earlier based on how far north you are so you can get the seeds down 8/1. Although it is somewhat unconventional, I would skip the dethatching step before seeding. It might make sense to RU first, two days later cut low, dethatch, and then keep the watering schedule. The dethatch is practically guaranteed to wake up the weed seeds and/or triv stolons. If you do it at the beginning of the fallowing stage at least you can get that stuff to germinate. Also, check around now to find those seeds and order them, put them in the basement - cool and dry. Its going to be harder to find those varieties than you think (especially in small quantities).

Just started a post regarding seed suppliers. Click here for more information

MorpheusPA wrote:+JG. The earlier the better, really, to give you time to get everything done and get the stuff sprouted. I was still getting sprout eight weeks after planting, and maturity took a lot longer than that.

I started my reno in July and I'm glad I did, in retrospect. It had plenty of time to mature before winter, so I had a decent lawn before the weather turned. It's more difficult to keep the seed moist (I have an irrigation system).

I would dethatch, however. Mostly to get the old, dead stuff out of there--but you don't have to hit the soil with the dethatcher. Set it a bit high and just tear out the old grass blades.

Morph, do you think it makes sense to dethatch before the fallowing so you can get as much of the nasties to germinate versus doing it right before seeding?

Brian,

I'm in a northern suburb of Minneapolis and I went with the selection that Mallory selected (Award, Bewitched, and Kingfisher). I'm pretty happy with how things went. The lawn isn't as dark as I'd hoped it would be, but I'm sure that some of that is due to it still being pretty young and some of it's due to my alkaline soil that doesn't like to hold onto iron very well. Still, not even a year old, it's darker than all of the other neighbors on my street (some more than others).

You can see more details about my renovation at this thread. It has pictures and what I experienced during my reno. If you're not the Craiglist killer, you can come over and check out my lawn sometime to see if you like it and/or think the reno is worth it.

As for where to buy seed, I used Sharp Bros. and Williams to source my seed. YMMV this year, though. Last year, Award was pretty hard to come by so I had to call a ton of places.

I'd get as early a start with RU as possible. I started last year on August 15th, which was later than I would have liked. July 31 sounds MUCH better. And July 15th even better (if you can stand looking at a completely dead lawn for another couple of weeks ).

So it seems like everyone is telling me to bump up my schedule by 2 weeks and to start looking for seeds now. The problem with July 31st is that I'll be out of tow from Aug 1 - Aug 8. That's a somewhat critical week to be around. I could start on the 9th or 10th when I get back.

Also, I reealy like the color of midnight. Is there a problem with me swapping midnight or midnight II for one of the recommended blends?

THanks,
Brian

bombri wrote:So it seems like everyone is telling me to bump up my schedule by 2 weeks and to start looking for seeds now. The problem with July 31st is that I'll be out of tow from Aug 1 - Aug 8. That's a somewhat critical week to be around. I could start on the 9th or 10th when I get back.

I would would still do the fallow in mid July, give it 3 weeks, then on 8/9 RU, seed on 8/10.

If you are gonna be out of town the first week of August I would DEFINITELY do the RU before that and let the lawn die while you are away. There is nothing you can do the first 2 weeks after spraying the roundup so the timing would be perfect.

jglongisland wrote:I would start two weeks earlier based on how far north you are so you can get the seeds down 8/1. Although it is somewhat unconventional, I would skip the dethatching step before seeding. It might make sense to RU first, two days later cut low, dethatch, and then keep the watering schedule. The dethatch is practically guaranteed to wake up the weed seeds and/or triv stolons. If you do it at the beginning of the fallowing stage at least you can get that stuff to germinate. Also, check around now to find those seeds and order them, put them in the basement - cool and dry. Its going to be harder to find those varieties than you think (especially in small quantities).

+100 jg

I watered for over a week after it was all dead, but I didn't dethatch & aerate until a few days before I seeded.
The result was tons of poa that I'm going to be fighting for quite a while.

Do not disturb the soil. Let a sleeping dog lie!

GaryCinChicago wrote:Do not disturb the soil. Let a sleeping dog lie!

+1 Don't learn the hard way like some of us... or me.

+ 4,435

Best thing i can say other then leave the soil alone would be, as soon as the lawn starts to die cut and bag. It will make your life so much better.

So I'm hearing that maybe I shouldn't till the soil at all. How am I going to get good seed sto soil contact? Just lay the seed and roll in after it's been cut short and has died?

bombri wrote:So I'm hearing that maybe I shouldn't till the soil at all. How am I going to get good seed sto soil contact? Just lay the seed and roll in after it's been cut short and has died?

Yep, if you scalp after RU'ing those seeds will get to the soil. Light top dress with peat and lots of praying that you don't get a 12 inch/hour downpour.

I'm also wondering about my midnight II question from above. Can I get Midnight II to replace one of those other varieties? Does anyone have a suggestion on that? Or will award be just as good as midnight for color?

bombri wrote:Or will award be just as good as midnight for color?

If not better! See here Click here for more information

As to seed to soil contact, here's a couple tips to remember.

1 to 2 weeks prior to applying RU, drop some high nitrogen fertilizer down then water well and often This gets everything growing. [50 Lbs of straight urea is cheap and fast acting. Urea is also the best "winterizer" as your last drop. If your soil needs phosphorous, then use starter fertilizer instead now]

During this time period, practice your sprinkler set up and placements.

Scalp with your mower ASAP, when you see signs of death and while the grass is still erect.
If you wait too long, you'll be raking by hand. (how many sq. ft you have??????)

Keep on watering shallow to germinate any seeds on top of the soil. Apply RU a second time.

During this time period, work on your sprinkler timing. You'll want to keep the seed bed damp and moist, but not puddling.

Prior to dropping the seeds, water well the evening before. This will soften the seedbed and when you heavy roll with a completely water filled roller, the seeds will be pushed down and into the softened soil.

Top dress with Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss. The peat moss retains the moisture, keeps the birds from feasting, acts as a great visual when areas are drying out and then adds a little organic matter to the soil.