I'm just getting into "active" lawncare this year. I did some overseeding this fall with better than expected results for being a newbie. Now I'm trying to plan for the future with a lawncare program. I've done a lot of reading here on BL and have learned a lot. This forum is awesome and you guys are GREAT!

I've been trying to decide on synthetic vs organic fertilizer. It started out as a cost analysis, then as I learned more about organic I began to get drawn in by all the benefits. I don't like asking questions on here if the topic has already been discussed, but I've got a few questions, a few of which may pose the request from certain members for soil test results. I had one done from Iowa State University through the local Extension office, but it was not very comprehensive. It gave me info like pH (6.8), P (58ppm), and K (162ppm) - it listed "N/A" for OM (WTF?). (BTW, I have read the article on organic lawn care in the FAQ section). Nonetheless, here are my questions:

1) Is it futile to apply organic ferts (Milo and/or SBM) if I do not put down a layer of compost first? (I already applied Milo to my overseed 3wks post seeding and got excellent results)

2) Will "synthetic" herbicides and/or insecticides have negative effects on soil microbes? (like WBG, Trimec, Barricade, etc)

...the more I learn the more questions I'll probably have, but this is a good start.

a few of which may pose the request from certain members for soil test results

People do that here?

it listed "N/A" for OM (WTF?)

Probably means they don't do it as part of the standard test - more $$$

Is it futile to apply organic ferts (Milo and/or SBM) if I do not put down a layer of compost first?

No.

Will "synthetic" herbicides and/or insecticides have negative effects on soil microbes? (like WBG, Trimec, Barricade, etc)

Actually the insecticides may be worse than the herbicides, to some higher (larger) members of the soil creatures. Fungicides really wreck the beneficial fungi.

What's a soil test?

The answer to both questions is kind of no. You don't need compost, I never used it. Decay bacteria are everywhere, and they'll happily eat your SBM, Milo, etc. and build their numbers just on that. Compost does help if there's a major issue in the soil, but you probably don't have one.

Herbicides aren't much of a hit to the microherd, but like Andy noted insecticides can be. Fungicides are a real problem. In most cases, none of the three will impact bacterial decomposition. Only fungicides do too much to fungi. Insecticides can take out the higher decomposers or shredders, meaning that decay takes a lot longer. Herbicides are usually lunch for the bacteria, so there are few issues there.

I used compost on the lawn once back in the 90s and did not go organic with fertilizer until 2001/2. I didn't see that the compost did much of anything for my situation. Unless you are starting with steam sterilized medium, then you probably don't need it. Although now that I think of it, I do suggest people use compost if they have used a strong fungicide to restore the beneficial fungi. But in general there is MUCH more bang for your bucks by using organic fertilizer.

The soil microbes consist of several classes of creatures. The fungi issue has been covered by Morph and Andy. Another class of critter is microarthropods or microscopic insects. Insecticides (also mentioned above) will wipe those guys out. They'll come back but you certainly aren't doing yourself any favors using insecticides. Some of them, DDT for example, persist in the soil forever, seemingly. There is still a measurable amount of DDT in the soil from apps back in the 50s.

Before the modern approach to organic lawn care, as described in the Organic Lawn Care FAQ, the only approach was to use compost. Compost is amazingly expensive and could be responsible for the masses avoiding organic lawn care for so long. The compost approach has an annual cost of something like $75 per 1,000 square feet, and that is only for one app. The chemical approach annual cost is something on the order of $12 per 1,000 square feet. When you couple that cost difference with the fact that compost is not a fertilizer, and that it is easy to over apply compost and smother the grass, and the fact that many people buy cheap manure and stink up the neighborhood; the case for organic lawn care is hard to make. But when you know that real organic fertilizer only costs a few dollars per app, then the cost analysis is not that different. In my neighborhood, soybean meal costs $15 for a 50 pound bag. At 20 pounds per 1,000 square feet, you can cover 2,500 square feet. The cost is $6 per app. If you apply 3x (Memorial Day, Labor Day, and Thanksgiving) the annual cost is $18. At that point you at least in the ballpark for costs versus chemical fertilizers. If you have acres and acres to apply to, then the cost difference will be significant. If you are a homeowner on 1/4 acre, and this is your hobby, then you might find the $6 difference in your Starbucks annual reserve account to make up the difference.

high quality compost can be applied for WAY less than $75 per 1000 sq ft, more like $25 per 1,000 ft{1 cubic yard per K gives almost 1/3 inch layer}. There is no way of matching the amount of organic material that this 1 topdressing per year provides to your soil just by dropping organic fertilizer.You would need to drop literally thousands and thousands of pounds of milorganite/soy/grains/etc per 1000 sq ft during a single season to match the amount of organic matter added by one properly applied topdressing application of compost.

He's was talking in terms of "feeding", which compost doesn't really do. You couldn't apply enough compost to match the feeding of milorganite or grains in a season.

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Cost for good compost will vary everywhere. In my neighborhood it costs $35 per cubic yard plus $50 for delivery up to 3 yards. If you have a 3/4 ton pick up you can save the delivery charge and get a much better deal, but you can only deliver it one yard at a time. If I delivered my own it would cost $35/1000 square feet.

Compost provides microbes, which organic fertilizer does not generally provide. If you are using microbes as a measure of goodness, then HanLawn is correct. If you have a shortage of microbes, then compost is, by far, the best bang for the buck. Organic fertilizer provides food, which compost does not generally provide. The composting process consumes all the food value of the original food stuffs. If there was much of any food value left in compost, it would not be finished composting. However, if you are using food value as a measure of goodness (which is what I was doing), then you get more bang for the buck with organic fertilizer. The food value from fertilizer comes from protein, carbohydrates, vitamins, minerals, and enzymes.

I was referring to improving overall soil quality,especially boosting organic matter.

Han:

Do you think Organic Matter grows on trees or something? Oh wait - it does. Are you doing everything in your power to get tons of leaves mulched into the lawn this year? Be creative - if you don't have that many leaves, get them from neighbors, leaf piles, etc. GREAT stuff for free this time of year.

No leaves in my yard, or neighborhood....newer community built on previous farm land.Even if I had access to leaves, my push reel mowers would not do much to turn them into mulch.......so I topdress with already composted leaves {Leafgro} which is quite manageable 1-2x/yr on my tiny patch of lawn.

by andy10917
Are you doing everything in your power to get tons of leaves mulched into the lawn this year? Be creative - if you don't have that many leaves, get them from neighbors, leaf piles, etc.

Not that this is all that creative, but I hopped in the car last night and drove about a mile to an older subdivision that has tons of trees. About every 3rd or 4th house had 5-10 bags of leaves out front. I kept driving until I saw one with the homeowner outside and stopped and asked if I could take a few bags. The guy was very nice and said to take as many as I wanted and to stop by anytime for more. The bonus was the leaves were already mulched. Stuffed 5 huge bags in the trunk and headed home. Plan on stopping by this weekend for more. Seems I learn something new everyday from this site.

That's what I do, too.

Then dump the bags evenly throughout the lawn and fire up the leaf blower to spread 'em out. Then mulch.

Great find! The only bad part is that they are mulched already. You won't get the full leaf crunching sound effect from the mower blades smashing the leaves to pieces. I love that sound!

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Agreed Michael! However on the positive side I may only have to go over them once. Which means I'll have extra time to get more

And thanks for the tip using the leaf blower to spread them out.

exncer wrote:I hopped in the car last night

As a sign that I'm spending too much time on home brewing forums, I read that and I started wondering how you could hop in the car. There's no way you could boil the hops, but you could dry hop. But why do it in the car?

hops ... not THAT would be expensive OM for the lawn ... but, ohhhhhh, the smell

ronert wrote:hops ... not THAT would be expensive OM for the lawn ... but, ohhhhhh, the smell

Hops are poisonous for dogs, so be careful

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Seven333 wrote:

ronert wrote:hops ... not THAT would be expensive OM for the lawn ... but, ohhhhhh, the smell

Hops are poisonous for dogs, so be careful

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That's true, but dogs aren't usually interested in hops unless they're mixed in with the malt.