Okay, first things first; my name is Grant. I've been around the internet looking at all the different lawn sites and have really been able to glean the most in the few hours I've spent here today after dchall referred me from gardenweb. I'll repost what I had there so you can see where I've been.

Before the repost... I'll kind of give you an idea of what I have done since:
- Adjusted my watering from every other day to once a week for 1.25 hours to get the 1 inch of water on the lawn.
- Adjusted my mower to its highest setting

I plan on getting a soil test done shortly in addition to throwing down some sort of organic fertilizer. Depending on the results of the test, I may throw down some compost in the late summer early fall.

I've been looking for places to get some organic fertilizers, but am striking out everywhere. None of the feed stores that show up when I google "feed stores in Atlanta, GA", "feed and seed, Atlanta, GA", "corn meal, GA", "soybean meal, GA" give me much, and NO one either knows or has corn meal (I've got some fungus so was hoping to throw it down to start some beneficial fungus). I'm picking up some coffee grounds today, and FINALLY found a store with the 50# bag of SBM for $20 - Standard Feed & Seed.

Any thoughts on the corn meal? If the same beneficial fungus will grow on alfalfa (rabbit pellets is best I could do) or SBM, please let me know!


And without further ado (sorry for the length):

Hey guys!

I live in Atlanta and I am having to maintain a lawn for the first time since highschool. Its been a while. So, I've got the basics of maintenance (ie. mowing, edging, weeding) down; however, what I've never really been educated on was how to have a beautiful, healthy lawn that makes everyone else jealous. The front yard says a lot about who you are and the pride of ownership you feel with regards to your home. With that said... i'm so lost its not even funny.

We moved into this house ~ last September and the previous owners had really gotten to a mowing maintenance only routine. Much of the front yard had deteriorated to being weeds/crabgrass/etc. There were a lot of thin patches and in general... it needed work. However as it was moving time and all the associated money, the lawn continued in maintenance until this spring.

I gather now that the spring is not exactly a favored time to overseed a lawn, but honestly... it needed to be done. Long story shortened, its had its ups and downs. I mowed, prepped, seeded and fertilized in late March when temps started to moderate. A week later Atlanta started getting hit with these torrential downpours that kept washing away all my hard work... I would try and mend where I could, but new I was fighting a losing battle. In the end, I think the lawn came LONG LONG LONG WAYS back. There are still two trouble areas that dont drain well and are shaded that I'll deal with, but the majority of both the front and rear lawns came in nicely and were growing extremely well ... lush green... I was suuuuper proud.

Well what brings me (and I imagine most new members) here is lawn trouble. I thought I was on the right track for a while because up until two weeks ago my lawn was growing in great! It was super green and seemed to be growing an inch a day. Not really but I'm sure you get my meaning as I would mow on a Sunday and think it needed mowing again by thurs. Here I was tihnking I was this amazing lawn guy even on my first crack at it since mowing the lawn for my parents in high school.

Fast forward to now. The lawn looks like it's taken a few steps backwards. As you'll see below, what was once lush and green has now developed brown spots and has substantially slowed it's growth. I mowed on saturday and barely needed to blow the driveway off. It still looks pretty green, but its definitely begun taking steps backwards. Brown spots/patches and yellow spots... sort of like dollar spot and brown out?

Two weeks ago I used scotts fungicide at the suggestion of the neighborhood lawn guy. I applied it at the preventative rate. I wasnt seeing any signs of fungus at this time, but figured I'd follow the advice of those more in the know than I. Ever since it seems like the lawn is going backwards and it's only MAY! How can I fix this before it gets too bad and hopefully before atlanta's summer heat comes in.

I really need and appreciate all suggestions. Suppose I should mention that I did water everyday for 4 weeks after seeding (except on rain days), and am currently running every other day. The sprinklers come on at 4am for 20 mins. I know they need an inch per week... but I have no idea what that equates to in time. Since reading the FAQs, I'll reduce waterings and up the time for a deep watering. The lawn is roughly 1/3 an acre.

First a few overall then close ups of the issues.







Some of the weeds

Do you live in Atlanta proper or one of the 'burbs? That's gonna make a difference in locating organic nutrients.

I suspect that your browning-out is related to the roots staying shallow and getting fried as the sun gets near the nost-direct of the year. I tried last year to help a guy in the Nashville area (on another forum) grow TTTF in mid-Spring so he could sell his house, after I tried to talk him out of it. He wound up with similar results.

Don't try to go to deep, infrequent watering all at once in late Spring or Summer. Go from every other day to every third day for two weeks, then every fourth day for two weeks and then 5 days, etc. And continue to watch for sever stress.

Get the soil test, so that we can help figure out what's next...

I live juuuuust outside the perimeter (I-285) in Dunwoody, GA (north central Atlanta). Seems that most of the known stores to carry the organics are a hike from me... And I drive a Tahoe and get 12 MPGs.

Stopped by Ace Hardware today after work and picking up used grounds at Starbucks. They have the commercial organics, but also carry cracked corn. They are gonna see if they can get a hold of cornmeal or soybean meal.

As for the watering, I'll adjust it back a bit. The browning did start before I cut the water back though, but gradually adjusting it back makes sense so I'll change the program.



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Welcome crewdog!!!!! Have you tried looking at a Southern States? That is where I get most of my grains. There is one in Alpharetta about 11 miles from you. You can also try Tractor Supply as they usually have some grains also. I think Cornmeal will be hard to find here in the south but you might have better luck looking for it at a restaurant supply store as they sell it in bulk to bakeries and such. I would think TTTF would be hard to grow in the heat you get in ATL. Good Luck!!!

Cracked corn is just fine! It's a little slower than corn meal, and if not fairly well-cracked it can sprout corn plants, but those don't survive the second or third mowing.

Don't give up if you go to a "Southern States" and they don't have what you're looking for. Up north, we have Agways, and I believe they're related to "Southern States". The Soybean Meal I buy is in "Southern States" bag. Ask them to order it for you, and you can pick it up in about a week.

There is a restaurant depot near you (I think) I was just directed there and got 50lb bags of cornmeal for $15.

Click here for more information

Wow! Thanks for all the suggestions guys and keep em coming.

I actually called the Southern States location in Alpharetta yesterday, except the location goes by "North Fulton F&S". They said they didnt have it (SBM or CM), but I'll call them again today and see if they can order it. Its right next to my parents house so I could kill two birds with one stone and everyone is happy.

I love the Restaurant Depot idea snachs, but how did you buy from them? I called em this morning and apparently (not a surprise really) you have to be a restaurant and need to present them with your biz license and all before you can become a member? Are you a member?

As for the heat and TTTF, its a battle for many Georgians. I know most of the houses in the burbs either have TTTF or Bermuda. Bermuda being clearly better suited to our climate. However, B is brown for much of the year ... heck... its just now turning green in most yards. If I can manage to get my lawn healthy, it will look good all year long

Suggestion: don't ask for special orders over the phone. It's too easy to say "no". Visit early on a Saturday morning (when they open, are quiet, and still drinking the morning coffee), and be friendly and chat. Find the manager/owner if you can. Make your first order big enough (buy for several applications) that they'll go through the trouble. Hint that if they'll work with you, you'll move your business to them. They can add it to the next order that comes in.

For what its worth Restaurant Depot seems to get Corn meal early Monday morning. Going on Thursday/Friday I never can get more than 1 or 2 bags (yesterday they were completely out). Monday they have a lot.

jglongisland wrote:For what its worth Restaurant Depot seems to get Corn meal early Monday morning. Going on Thursday/Friday I never can get more than 1 or 2 bags (yesterday they were completely out). Monday they have a lot.

... well... I have to get around the whole "you have to be a business and a member" to order from them. Right?

crewdawg wrote:

jglongisland wrote:For what its worth Restaurant Depot seems to get Corn meal early Monday morning. Going on Thursday/Friday I never can get more than 1 or 2 bags (yesterday they were completely out). Monday they have a lot.

... well... I have to get around the whole "you have to be a business and a member" to order from them. Right?

You can make up any name you want, fill out the form, get the card and they'll sell to you. Just need a "shtick" as we say in NY.

I am sure Southern States can order you some SBM because I just ordered some yesterday since they didn't have enough on hand and I will be able to pick it up on Tuesday. I think CM is hard to get here in the south since we are not in the corn belt. They always seem to have plenty of Cracked Corn and Alfalfa pellets on hand!!

Schweet! Done. Now I just gots to hope that they dont ask to see my business license and proof of authorization or whatever that is. I'll keep exploring other available options that come up as well... ya know... in case I get there and they tell me to take a hike.

Will also try North Fulton F&S again. And you arent kiddin Mightyquinn... CM has been near impossible to find. One place i called said they wished they could get it and if I find it... to let them know (small mom and pop F&S biz).

You guys rock

Maybe we're thinking a little wrong as well...the corn meal or cracked corn for the anti-fungal effect is great.

But Georgia should be cotton country, which means any good feed mill or grain mill will carry cottonseed meal. That stuff is great to use as your primary feeding (it's almost identical to soybean meal in terms of protein, P, and K), and probably cheaper for you down there.

Soy may be more expensive down there as well.

Like I said above, cracked corn is great for anti-fungal measures and I use it myself. Breakdown is a little slower because of the particle size, but nothing extreme.

Hmmmmm... time for more phone calls!

Well... it seems nothing is cheap in Atlanta.

Cracked Corn = $19.99 40# bag - In the back of my truck - Ace
Soybean Meal = $19.99 50# bag- South Atlanta at Standard Feed & Seed
Cottonseed Meal = $19.99 40 or 50# bag - Just down the street at Ashe Simpson Gardens!
Milorganite = $14.99 - In the back of my truck... and smelling O' so lovely
Starbucks Ground = $FREE and in my passenger seat... combating the wonderful Milorganite.

Still havent tracked down the Cornmeal (outside of Restaurant Depot), but guess its not a requirement if I'm able to get the cracked corn.

Anyone have any thoughts on the spreader setting for the various amendments above? I searched through the forum and see that I should start at a 7 or 8 for the Cracked Corn and possibly 6.5 for the Milorganite. I'll probably just mix the coffee grounds in with the Mil (or hand toss... need to let it dry out). What about SBM or CSM? 3-3.5 (based on my assumption that its a fine meal)?

I'll try and get a soil sample out to Logan Labs this weekend... but its a pretty packed weekend so... maybe not yet.

Cool, and yes, that's quite expensive. I pay $6 per fifty pounds for corn (cracked or meal), $10 for soybean meal, can't get cottonseed meal, and Milorganite is $12.37 (I just bought some and checked the receipt).

Welcome to corn country. There's a fifty acre corn field 2 blocks away from me, mind the crows (which are really quite intelligent and attractive, if a bit feisty).

Try to find a grain mill near you (reasonably, anyway) and stock up. As it stands, the cottonseed meal is the best bang for the buck.

Those settings are about right, give or take, and feel free to play with it as you go. Got a bad looking spot? Throw more down. No problem. Your spreader will also vary from ours, as no two seem to be quite the same even if they're the same brand.

SBM is probably about 7 as well, and CSM is going to vary a lot by the grind. For powder, 5 (and get ready to mix by hand when it gets that well in the spreader). For middling grind, like corn porridge, probably about 6.

Some incidentals here:

Fescues like a grand total of 2-4 pounds N per year. Delivered organically, the sky's the limit, however, and the grass won't react negatively (quite the opposite).

Cracked corn at 1.65-0.65-0.40 is a wonderful soil conditioner if cheap (yours is not) and a lousy feed. You'd need 60 pounds per thousand to deliver 1 pound of nitrogen equivalent (yes, organics don't work the same way and the numbers don't work real well either, but it's a fair guide).

Milorganite at 5-2-0 is a pretty good feed and contains 4% iron to boot for a darker green lawn. It's a terrible soil conditioner, with only about 10% making the final transfer to humus. All grains are in the 20% range. 20 pounds per thousand will deliver 1 pound N (plus 0.8 pounds of iron).

Cottonseed meal is 7-2-1 and a good all-around feeding--15 pounds per thousand will deliver 1 pound of nitrogen.

Soybean meal is 7-1-2 and also a good all-around feeding. 15 per thousand, again, for the 1 pound N.

Yeah I was going to go ahead and throw down the Milorganite and Cracked Corn this weekend together to start things off while I look around for other available options. My desire for the corn is primarily for the beneficial fungi that it supports. Especially with the brown spot I'm seeing along the front of my lawn and near one of my islands.

Also... as a complete noob to all of this... when you say throw down 15lbs per 1000 SF, does that equate to a setting on the spreader (scotts edge guard) or is that merely an amount that I should run through the spreader on my lawn until done?

I was thinking that I'd put down the CC and Mil and possibly some UCG this weekend (not really all that much collected yet) to feed and condition the soil. Next month I'd put down the CSM, and then rotate adding in SBM, MIL and UCG. Does this sound like overkill or ...? Seems like its all to taste really. I guess I'll know more about what I need after I get the soil test back.

The issue at Restaurant Depot is probably sales tax. They might not be set up to collect and pay it.

Also look at rabbit food. It is the cheapest "grain" in my area. Corn is about 4x more than I like to pay. CGM is up to $32/bag (50 pounds) and that is without the preem license. I used to be outraged at $19 for CGM.

I have a question: in your 3rd picture you show a little bank next to the driveway. What direction does that bank face? Would it be to the south? It just looks heat stressed to me. At the top of the bank is a gutter that diverts runoff, so the only water it gets is what falls directly on it from rain or a sprinkler. Mounds and banks are hard to keep irrigated, and if they face south, you have a real issue then.

As for spreader settings, every organic material has different settings. And in areas with varying humidity, it varies with that too. First time I tried to spread CGM in a Scott's drop spreader I set it half open. I put 2 pounds in it and walked over a 200 square foot area. Hardly any of the CGM dropped. So I set if for wide open. Even then only half dropped. So I settled on wide open and going over everything twice. That worked. Be flexible. Organics tend to clump with some clumping more than others.

Let me also suggest a tune up to your Photography. Thank you so much for the pix up front. With garden photography, bright sun and strong shadows make it harder to see what you're looking at in greenery. To the camera, brightly lighted green looks yellow while green in the dark can look very dark. When you are looking for subtle differences in color value, it helps to have light coming from a distributed source (like clouds). If you can get up early and catch it before the sun hits it, it is easier to see shades of color and textures. Or taking pictures on a cloudy day works very well. Here is an example. These are the same area.





The point of the second picture was to show the subtle difference in color of the yellowish blades in the center of the screen. In harsh light you can't see that.

What I am suggesting is that the brown spots are hard to see and distinguish what might be wrong. When looking for disease, I look for spots on the blades of grass. That requires a pretty close shot with even lighting. That area on the bank by the drive would be a good one to get in shady light.