Why do I often read those who are pro organic lawn care are so against dicamba & 2 4-d herbicide? Is it because it is bad for our environment, pets, children? Or does it actually harm the microorganisms in the soil?

I switched to organic fertilizer this year and I am debating whether to continue use of weed b gone max to help the fight against weeds.

How many of you on this forum that fertilize organically still use an herbicide like weed b gone once or twice a year?

Erik

Well, any herbicide has environmental impact and that's what they seem to be objecting to. I'm personally not pure organic, my methodology is IPM (Integrated Pest Management). I don't find the judicious and occasional use of herbicides to be an issue. I'll use the least toxic one that will get the job done the first time.

That having been said, I always spot-spray the specific weed (I have very few) and never blanket spray an area with herbicide. Tenacity was a minor exception to help break the P. annua cycle on the lawn, but it's very low toxicity.

Most herbicides eventually become food for the micro-herd and very few of them have any impact on it. Insecticides are a different matter, though.

Okay cool, that was sort of my impression. I'd like spot treat a couple areas of the yard twice a year(spring & fall). I mostly wanted to be sure this will not disrupt the soil biology and the micro-herd. Thank you for the clarification.

Does the same hold true for Pre-M? Barricade, Dimension, Halts

You'll be fine. A healthy microherd eats that stuff for lunch (literally).

Most pre-M concoctions eventually break down because the microherd eats those as well. Barricade is the slowest to decay, but it goes eventually. Some also go in heat, washing out due to rainfall/irrigation, and so on.

Bacteria are amazingly good at snapping any chemical with energy in it, up to and including dioxin (which is actually produced in tiny amounts naturally). If one of your hundred thousand or so species won't do it, it simply can't be done.

Last thing...Will the earthworms mind the Herbicides and Pre-M?

Erik

As a general rule, no, not at normal application. Some insecticides will kill them in the lab, although field trials show far less damage.

Haven't had this discussion in a long time. I am a moderator on a 100% organic forum elsewhere. They have no tolerance for chemicals. If you want to apply chemicals, go to a different forum and get the info there. My thought is that if you are otherwise organic, at least bring up your plan in the organic forum. You may find there are perfectly good alternatives to the particular -icide you were planning to use. There are some products where the organic version works much better than the chemicals do. One that comes to mind is the BT worm/caterpillar killers. BT is incredible!

There are also situations where the lawn gets out of control. Say you were called away for a period of time when the spring rains hit and sprouted every weed seed in your lawn. You return to find a lawn "full of weeds." We see this all the time, and there have been some great photographic examples in the forums this year. When that happens, the fastest way back to a real lawn can be to apply a chemical herbicide. Spot spraying is best, but sometimes carpet spraying is needed. Otherwise it can take years of expensive and time consuming coddling to get back to a lawn that takes care of itself.

Then there are features in some chemical products that you cannot get with any organic product. Round Up is one chemical that has a place in the garden. I believe it is overused by about 200% in situations where specific weeds could be targeted, but there is no organic equivalent to Round Up. Strong vinegar will kill some plants completely but too often it only kills the topgrowth. Other plants vinegar does not even touch. Other examples are the fungicides that kill red thread and rust. The organic alternatives seem to have no effect at all on the 'red diseases.'

If you have a healthy, thick, organic lawn you should have few weeds. The few weeds that do pop up? Simple...pull 'em! No big deal.

I seem to pull a few weeds every time I mow..no reason to get out the chemicals. I haven't had the need to even spot spray anything in quite a few years.

Get in the habit of pulling a few weeds with every mow and nothing should get out of hand.

My issue with the 'chemicals are fine' crowd (remember, this IS the organic forum!)is that yes, small amounts aren't terribly harmful but multiply a 'little' chemical usage by, what, 75 million homeowners in the US? Are chemicals terribly harmful? Probably not. Are they HELPFUL to our health, air, drinking water, kids or pets? Heck no.

Now let me get back to my suffering - my Hawks lost today in 3 OT's to Iowa State.......