Spring is around the corner and this past summer I had the joy of putting in my first yard. I researched this forum for hours and hours before tackling this project. My older brother luckily won yard of the year in his ghetto city back in 05 and now he is the yard expert. So it is now my goal to have a nicer yard than him and knock that chip off his shoulder. Here is a little run down of what I have done so far.

Like most of you recommend I started off with a soil test and determined I have a clay loam. After bringing in 17 yards of biosolids and tilling it before application, after application, and again after installing the sprinkler system. I planted the 3k square feet with a Midnight II/Prosperity mix on August 28, 2011. I applied triple 16 at planting and then half does’ every 2 or 3 weeks until the secondary water was shut off mid October. Before snowfall I applied another heavy dose of triple 16 and a 50 lb bag of gypsum. Which brings me to today….

My question for you guys is what should I be doing now or what should the first steps be when spring rolls around. There are some thin areas that I feel I need to address. I also I have ton of weeds. Do I overseed first? Do I get a pre-emergent down and forget overseeding? When can I start spraying weeds? I plan on getting a detailed soil test from Logan Labs in the next couple weeks.

Thanks in advance for your feedback

And here is the soil test I had one month before planting. Test is from the local university extension and the only recommendation was to leach all salts out with heavy irrigation.

Soil Test Results Interpretations
Texture Clay Loam
ph 7.3 Normal
Salinity - Ece dS/m 2.48 High
Phosphorus - P mg/kg 86 Very High
Potassium - K mg/kg 154 Adequate
Nitrate - Nitrogen 62.1

One more pic

That is in great shape. No need to seed at all. Get your pre-M down in about 6-8 weeks depending on soil temps and get some Tenacity as well as WBG. I would do a blanket spray of Tenacity around 3 oz/acre in early spring as soon as everything has greened up, it will make your poa stand out. I would follow up with a second spray a week later, and then spot spray the poa and other weeds on a periodic basis. Use WBG on any broadleafs.

You have a great base, that will look awesome in May. With regular/steady organic or slow release N feedings the KBG will close any holes in no time.

I rarely disagree with Jon (JGLONGISLAND), but this time I'm disagreeing.

This is a tough-love lecture, and I hope that you take it in the spirit it is intended...

You say that you read this website for hours and hours and then you tilled. You say that you got a good soil test but you cut corners and got one that good enough to get a bag of starter fertilizer where you need to prove that you have a P shortage, and not much else.

Want to beat the brother? First, stop trying find ways to say you're doing what this site recommends and do what it REALLY says. Since you've tilled, here is Recommendation #1:

Get a bottle of Tenacity and get it soon. You're going to need it.

And here is Recommendation #2:

Get a GOOD soil test from UMASS or Logan Labs, and post it

And Recommendation #3:

Read everything you can on this site about Proper Watering and Proper Mowing

We don't believe in fighting fair. We believe in winning fraternal battles.

OK, true, I missed the part about the good soil test. But the Tenacity is mandatory.

I second the opinion that you don't need to overseed. It will fill in nicely with proper watering, fertilizing, and cultural practices. Get your pre-emergent barrier down at the proper time.

Tenacity will help on a post-emergent basis, but also broaden/augment the pre-emergent control.

Read Andy's article on the "triangle" approach to weed control. I'm a big believer in using only what you need. The alternative view is the "scorched earth" approach. Don't go there.

1. Some more detail on what you have done and what you have will help. To start with:
- Can you be more specific on where you live than Utah? There are a lot of different climates there and it matters. We don't need address, but City or zip code certainly help.
- How do you know you have Clay Loam? Did you have a particle analysis done or something like the soil structure test listed here: Click here for more information ?
- How large is the lawn? It looks like 3k square feet from your post.
- How deep, and how did you till the biosolids - and what were they?

2. Andy is spot on. The best thing you can do is start with a good soil test from Logan labs. Once the guru's see that, they can start a plan for bringing the soil into shape. A good lawn is just like gardening. It starts with the soil. You can test right now if the soil isn't too hard to dig into. A thread in the soil management forum may help get more attention to the soil structure and test analysis.

3. I see some broadleaf and grassy weeds in those photos, but nothing that can't be addressed with appropriate herbicides. Generally, 2-4-D (Weed-b-Gon is one brand name), Triclopyr (Chickweed, Clover and Oxalis killer, sometimes shortened here to CCO is one brand name) and Mesotrione (Tenacity is the only brand name) will cover just about everything for KBG. Also remember that weeds need to be growing for post-emergent herbicides to kill them so it may be too early to spray now.

4. You are going to want to get a pre-emergent herbicide down this spring. There are lots of options that you can research on this site and elsewhere. In fact, it can be rather confusing, here Click here for more information is a recent thread on them.

5. I don't see any areas that look like they need to be re-seeded or over-seeded. Like JG said, KBG will spread into any small bare areas.

Andy, thanks for the tough love! I like it. And I will be doing a Logan Labs soil test soon, rest assured! I dont care what it takes, I want to beat him.

I live in Salt Lake city zip is 84105. We have cold snowy winters (Not this winter), and hot dry summers. I tilled down 6-8 inches. The biosolids I used came from the local sewage plant. Some people call it human compost.

As far as determining the type of soil the USU extension had a clay loam on the top of the soil report. I have about 3k square feet maybe a little less of grass.

Thanks again for all the help. I will spend whatever and do whatever to get his attention.

Do you have a report on the biosolids? They tend to vary widely.

OK, so you took it in the way it was intended...

So, let's get you a mandatory reading list to go to brother-butt-kicking mode.

BEFORE you take the soil sample, read:

Soil Management Part 1

There is a Part II article also, but you don't need it yet. You may want to read it when you get a CEC/TEC reading that you don't understand and we get all obsessed about it. That may happen if the Clay Loam gets confirmed.

Then, as mentioned above, the weeds begin to grow, you'll need:

Weed Control: The Triangle Approach

And if you suspect you may wind up with a few holes in the new lawn, call on the guru of Grass-In-A-Pot (JGLONGISLAND) after reading:

KBG Sod In Pots

And learning to identify grassy weeds will become an obsession later this Spring. Read:

Identifying Grassy Weeds

A regular Forum for you to follow until the end of June will be the Lawn Renovations forum - that is where other folks with 2011 Renovators will be bemoaning the challenges of their new lawns. Come July, you will be graduated and the 2012 Renovators will be bemoaning their own struggles...

Morpheus,

Is this what you are looking for...

(All values presented are in mg/KG on a dry weight basis )
Metal Averages Limit
Aluminum 4,015 None
Arsenic 9 41
Cadmium 1 39
Chromium 9 None
Copper 441 1,500
Lead 9 300
Mercury 1 17
Molybdenum 4 75
Nickel 7 420
Phosphorus 10,087 None
Selenium 5 100
Silver 5 None
Zinc 275 2,800

This came from their annual biosolids report. If this isnt what you are looking for I'll call tomorrow. Thanks a ton

That too. I don't have a problem with any of it. If they publish NPK ratios and iron levels, that would be great too--and most biosolid companies do on their Web site, although it's usually a minimum number (or, it's allowed to be higher legally, it's not allowed to be lower).

If they have both soluble N and WIN (Water-Insoluble Nitrogen) that would be great, but isn't strictly-speaking necessary.

At least from the above I can see that phosphorus (the P part) is about 1%. If your above soil test is correct (and I'd rather see a Logan, just like Andy), it's fine. You don't seem to require any (but again, I'll wait for the Logan test to call that).

nicolas09 wrote:My older brother luckily won yard of the year in his ghetto city back in 05 and now he is the yard expert.

Has your brother won each year since then or was that is only victory? What kind of budget are we working with?

"Watch out Bro I am comin' for you!"

nicolas09 wrote:I live in Salt Lake city zip is 84105.

I'll be up in that area skiing in late March at Brighton with the family. Beautiful part of the country and the best skiing. Pray for more snow in the mountains for me since this year is a bit thin so far...

So he won in 05 and to make things even worse that house won again last year with a new home owner. He hasnt lived there for 3 years either. Now he is claiming the yard he built is so good that he doesnt even have to touch it and it wins. This is why I will spend whatever it takes.

To give you guys a little update I shipped my soil off today to Logan Labs.

Snow has been terrible here all winter. If you plan on skiing groomers you'll have fun. The knee deep powder has been MIA. But 2 years ago the best snow was March-May. Maybe that will be the case this year.

Post up the soil test results in the soil analysis forum when you have them in hand. Once we see that, we will have a much better idea of where to go with the lawn.

In the meantime, here are a few more things to think about. You say money is no object so we will take you at your word, but how much time can you spend? Do you want to do something every day or are you more of a monthly kind of guy? Be realistic, though, since it won't help you to burn out.

Also, if you have some idea of the specific weeds you are having problems with, that will help determine what you need to do to treat them. It may also help to minimize overuse of chemicals which is always a good thing. That being said, you will probably want a pre-emergent, 2-4-D, Triclopyr and maybe Tenacity if you want to use herbicides.

Have you thought about your overall philosophy? Organic vs. chemical vs. hybrid? What is your tolerance for chemical weed/pest control?

Do you have sprayers? You will likely want a good pump sprayer with good nozzles for chemicals if you use them and a decent hose end sprayer for things that don't require the precision of a pump sprayer. I assume you have a functional spreader.




As for skiing... Powder is the way to go if it is there. I am not holding out great hope, but there is still time.

I go to spend time with the kids, and as long as they are having fun all is good. Truthfully, while I would love waist deep powder, I'm not sure the little ones would have as much fun.

Help me beat my brother!

I'd load him up with a six pack or two then get out a Louisville slugger....

By the time he knows its game's on --- it'll already be lights out!

I knew that was coming. Alternately, I know a fellow you can hire...

Guys,

Soil test is in... How did I do? And I just uploaded this while I got my feet massaged too!


Sample Depth in inches 6

Total Exchange Capacity (M. E.) 18.40

pH of Soil Sample 8.00

Organic Matter, Percent 1.67

SULFUR: p.p.m. 49

2 5Mehlich III
Phosphorous: 396 lbs / acre

CALCIUM:
Desired Value 5003 lbs / acre
Value Found 5547 lbs / acre

MAGNESIUM:
Desired Value 529 lbs / acre
Value Found 783 lbs / acre

POTASSIUM:
Desired Value 573 lbs / acre
Value Found 213 lbs / acre
Deficit -360

SODIUM: lbs / acre 168
Calcium (60 to 70%) 75.39
Magnesium (10 to 20%) 17.74
Potassium (2 to 5%) 1.48
Sodium (.5 to 3%) 1.99
Other Bases (Variable) 3.40
Exchangable Hydrogen (10 to 15%) 0.00
Boron (p.p.m.) 0.79
Iron (p.p.m.) 126
Manganese (p.p.m.) 44
Copper (p.p.m.) 3.8
Zinc (p.p.m.) 6.59
Aluminum (p.p.m.) 114


Logan Labs, LLC

Was the test depth really 6", or did they (or you) type it incorrectly (it matters).