I reseeded tall fescue in November, and noticed in certain part of lawn the new grass grows like hair and then stops. The soil is pretty hard, like dried clay. Actually I bet it does consists of much clay.

Every summer NC experiences a mix of heavy storms and strong sun shines. For the soil rich in clay, it means flooding and drought. Is fescue really suitable to this climate?

Wait a minute - in the first paragraph you say "I bet it does consist of clay" and in the second paragraph "for the soil rich in clay" - how did you jump to that conclusion as fact?

Please point us to your latest soil test and structure results. Did you run the free soil structure "jar test"? Let's not get ahead of ourselves with assumptions...

Where in the Triangle do you live?

andy10917 wrote:Wait a minute - in the first paragraph you say "I bet it does consist of clay" and in the second paragraph "for the soil rich in clay" - how did you jump to that conclusion as fact?

Please point us to your latest soil test and structure results. Did you run the free soil structure "jar test"? Let's not get ahead of ourselves with assumptions...

I posted my soil test result in the link of the below.

Click here for more information

But I doubt it has any structure info. It may not be clay, but it really does not look like lawn friendly stuff, which becomes muddy on litter water and dries fast.

grassboro wrote:Where in the Triangle do you live?

Cary

I'm not familar with Cary (Contained Area of Relocated Yankees), but my experience in the Fayetteville area (I was in the military) was North Carolina, at least outside of the Mountainous regions, was mostly sandy soils.

How'd I miss that?

With an Meq of 8.1, you don't have clay. That's in the lowest range for silt, higher end of sand. Probably you just have very compacted silty sand.

I'd bet that the combination of your pH of 5.5 (quite low) and phosphorus of 4 PPM (extremely low) stopped the seed from growing. Young seedlings are semi-particular about not sitting in acid, and not lacking phosphorus--both are a problem in your case.

MorpheusPA wrote:How'd I miss that?

With an Meq of 8.1, you don't have clay. That's in the lowest range for silt, higher end of sand. Probably you just have very compacted silty sand.

I'd bet that the combination of your pH of 5.5 (quite low) and phosphorus of 4 PPM (extremely low) stopped the seed from growing. Young seedlings are semi-particular about not sitting in acid, and not lacking phosphorus--both are a problem in your case.

If this means more fertilization needed, which fertilizer should I use? Will 10-10-10 be a good choice? But it may push the Ca and Mg even higher?!

turf_toes wrote:I'm not familar with Cary (Contained Area of Relocated Yankees), but my experience in the Fayetteville area (I was in the military) was North Carolina, at least outside of the Mountainous regions, was mostly sandy soils.

Hmm. I'm not living in that Cary. BTW, I heard rumors saying the builder filled the lawn with construction trash, and then lay turf on it. So far I'd believe this to be true since I can't imagine any natural soil could be awful like this!!!

Without the base saturations, I'd be winging it on the Ca and Mg, but eyeballing it says you need more Ca than Mg--a lot more. Personally, I'd start with calcitic lime, but we'll let Andy call that one. You have 1.0 pH points to boost, that will take a bit.

10-10-10 would be tolerable, but your K is already very good and you don't need any more right now. I'd use the cheapest starter fertilizer you can find (probably 18-24-12 or something like that, it really doesn't matter) and apply at bag rate in late April, late May, late June (if the weather is holding spring; if it's getting hot or soon to get hot, skip this one), September, October, and November. Then re-test.

Hmm. I'm not living in that Cary. BTW, I heard rumors saying the builder filled the lawn with construction trash, and then lay turf on it. So far I'd believe this to be true since I can't imagine any natural soil could be awful like this!!!

It's standard for new construction; mine was worse. pH of 4.5, tapped on every resource, completely dead...yuck. It took a couple years, but I turned it around.

johniii wrote:Hmm. I'm not living in that Cary.

Good to hear that.

As you may know there has been a lot of development in Cary over the years. I would not be surprised if some trash was buried.

Here is a very old soil survey (Raleigh to New Bern)that will give you a general idea of what the soil was/is like in that area. Being from NC it was interesting to read this.

http://www.soil.ncsu.edu/about/century/soilsurvey.html

Did anyone here point out that the main reason his renovation stopped like a car hitting a wall is that he re-seeded in November - and it was December when he noticed it stopped - and now, it's into January....

I know it's been a bit of a warm winter in the Deep South - but it still doesn't change the fact that the grass slows down a whole lot during the shorter winter days.... Even though it's "Cool Season Grass" .... it doesn't change the fact that the grass thinks it's winter because of the short day lengths....

So... Back to JohnIII - Geographically, which areas of your lawn have stopped like a brick? Are they out in the middle of the sun where they get sun from morning till dusk, or are they on the North side of the house where they barely get 1 hour of sun a day this time of year?

I would expect to see it picking back up around end of February/early March depending on the weather.... I would expect the "North Facing" shaded areas to pick up later - maybe Late March into April/May depending on the weather.....

Next Spring (April/May)... If you are having trouble with South facing areas that get full sun still not growing right - dig around and see what lies beneath... Most of the time - you find buried junk, construction debris, rocks, and septic tanks under those areas and the grass can't send down roots full depth....

But... Now is a good time of year to get that Lime down depending on what Andy and Morph recommend and think about the Phosphates...

Thanks

John_in_SC wrote:Did anyone here point out that the main reason his renovation stopped like a car hitting a wall is that he re-seeded in November - and it was December when he noticed it stopped - and now, it's into January....

I know it's been a bit of a warm winter in the Deep South - but it still doesn't change the fact that the grass slows down a whole lot during the shorter winter days.... Even though it's "Cool Season Grass" .... it doesn't change the fact that the grass thinks it's winter because of the short day lengths....

So... Back to JohnIII - Geographically, which areas of your lawn have stopped like a brick? Are they out in the middle of the sun where they get sun from morning till dusk, or are they on the North side of the house where they barely get 1 hour of sun a day this time of year?

I would expect to see it picking back up around end of February/early March depending on the weather.... I would expect the "North Facing" shaded areas to pick up later - maybe Late March into April/May depending on the weather.....

Next Spring (April/May)... If you are having trouble with South facing areas that get full sun still not growing right - dig around and see what lies beneath... Most of the time - you find buried junk, construction debris, rocks, and septic tanks under those areas and the grass can't send down roots full depth....

But... Now is a good time of year to get that Lime down depending on what Andy and Morph recommend and think about the Phosphates...

Thanks

Thanks a lot for your points. All of them are enlightening! Just to clarify one thing. I doubt it's about timing of reseeding because not all reseeded areas are problematic. Art least half are pretty established... I noticed most problematic areas are close to the house. Possibly when I spread the urine, I unconsciously keep it away to avoid the smell...

johniii wrote:

John_in_SC wrote:Did anyone here point out that the main reason his renovation stopped like a car hitting a wall is that he re-seeded in November - and it was December when he noticed it stopped - and now, it's into January....

I know it's been a bit of a warm winter in the Deep South - but it still doesn't change the fact that the grass slows down a whole lot during the shorter winter days.... Even though it's "Cool Season Grass" .... it doesn't change the fact that the grass thinks it's winter because of the short day lengths....

So... Back to JohnIII - Geographically, which areas of your lawn have stopped like a brick? Are they out in the middle of the sun where they get sun from morning till dusk, or are they on the North side of the house where they barely get 1 hour of sun a day this time of year?

I would expect to see it picking back up around end of February/early March depending on the weather.... I would expect the "North Facing" shaded areas to pick up later - maybe Late March into April/May depending on the weather.....

Next Spring (April/May)... If you are having trouble with South facing areas that get full sun still not growing right - dig around and see what lies beneath... Most of the time - you find buried junk, construction debris, rocks, and septic tanks under those areas and the grass can't send down roots full depth....

But... Now is a good time of year to get that Lime down depending on what Andy and Morph recommend and think about the Phosphates...

Thanks

Thanks a lot for your points. All of them are enlightening! Just to clarify one thing. I doubt it's about timing of reseeding because not all reseeded areas are problematic. Art least half are pretty established... I noticed most problematic areas are close to the house. Possibly when I spread the urine, I unconsciously keep it away to avoid the smell...

What sides of the house are problematic?

Well... I am a couple hours south of you - and I haven't needed to mow the my Fescue/KBG mix areas at all since early-mid December....

There is another thing here that I am not sure whether folks picked up on....

johniii wrote:
Thanks a lot for your points. All of them are enlightening! Just to clarify one thing. I doubt it's about timing of reseeding because not all reseeded areas are problematic. Art least half are pretty established... I noticed most problematic areas are close to the house. Possibly when I spread the urine, I unconsciously keep it away to avoid the smell...

I think you need to actually detail what you are doing with your lawn care.... It sounds like you are working on an organic program of some sort.... I think it's great, but there can be some unplanned side effects....

Urine can be stout stuff - especially on young grass....

Are there any other details? Amendments, additives, other fertilizers? Pets, kitchen waste?

Full disclosure is fairly important - because we will never guess what you might put on your lawn as a test... Trust me, Urine isn't the weirdest thing people put on their lawns... Remember - we are lawn nuts here!

For example - I found out that my lawn does NOT like baby formula - either the straight powder, or the left overs that the kids don't eat... It is NOT beneficial to my lawn like Milk is.... Those areas did very poorly in the summer - and even showed yellowing/browning in the fall/winter... I did not expect that at all! I figured it's effect would be similar to Milk...

Thanks

Michael Wise wrote:

johniii wrote:

John_in_SC wrote:Did anyone here point out that the main reason his renovation stopped like a car hitting a wall is that he re-seeded in November - and it was December when he noticed it stopped - and now, it's into January....

I know it's been a bit of a warm winter in the Deep South - but it still doesn't change the fact that the grass slows down a whole lot during the shorter winter days.... Even though it's "Cool Season Grass" .... it doesn't change the fact that the grass thinks it's winter because of the short day lengths....

So... Back to JohnIII - Geographically, which areas of your lawn have stopped like a brick? Are they out in the middle of the sun where they get sun from morning till dusk, or are they on the North side of the house where they barely get 1 hour of sun a day this time of year?

I would expect to see it picking back up around end of February/early March depending on the weather.... I would expect the "North Facing" shaded areas to pick up later - maybe Late March into April/May depending on the weather.....

Next Spring (April/May)... If you are having trouble with South facing areas that get full sun still not growing right - dig around and see what lies beneath... Most of the time - you find buried junk, construction debris, rocks, and septic tanks under those areas and the grass can't send down roots full depth....

But... Now is a good time of year to get that Lime down depending on what Andy and Morph recommend and think about the Phosphates...

Thanks

Thanks a lot for your points. All of them are enlightening! Just to clarify one thing. I doubt it's about timing of reseeding because not all reseeded areas are problematic. Art least half are pretty established... I noticed most problematic areas are close to the house. Possibly when I spread the urine, I unconsciously keep it away to avoid the smell...

What sides of the house are problematic?

Actually there are two patches of my lawn that are turning yellow currently. One patch is the whole front door yard, and the other is the strip of the lawn close to my back door. I have not sprayed the urine on these two parts. The reason for no spraying urine at front door lawn is I feel embarrassed to be caught by my neighbor even on my own lawn; the reason of no urine on the strip close to back door is the smell.

John_in_SC wrote:Well... I am a couple hours south of you - and I haven't needed to mow the my Fescue/KBG mix areas at all since early-mid December....

There is another thing here that I am not sure whether folks picked up on....

johniii wrote:
Thanks a lot for your points. All of them are enlightening! Just to clarify one thing. I doubt it's about timing of reseeding because not all reseeded areas are problematic. Art least half are pretty established... I noticed most problematic areas are close to the house. Possibly when I spread the urine, I unconsciously keep it away to avoid the smell...

I think you need to actually detail what you are doing with your lawn care.... It sounds like you are working on an organic program of some sort.... I think it's great, but there can be some unplanned side effects....

Urine can be stout stuff - especially on young grass....

Are there any other details? Amendments, additives, other fertilizers? Pets, kitchen waste?

Full disclosure is fairly important - because we will never guess what you might put on your lawn as a test... Trust me, Urine isn't the weirdest thing people put on their lawns... Remember - we are lawn nuts here!

For example - I found out that my lawn does NOT like baby formula - either the straight powder, or the left overs that the kids don't eat... It is NOT beneficial to my lawn like Milk is.... Those areas did very poorly in the summer - and even showed yellowing/browning in the fall/winter... I did not expect that at all! I figured it's effect would be similar to Milk...

Thanks

I did not use formula, but poured a lot waste water cleansing vegetable or meat. Some of them are a bit greasy. I've stopped doing this since last month...

Ok....

So the areas that have gotten more nitrogen/minor elements are looking better than the other areas....

Do you have any Miracle Grow or water soluble fertilizer you could try out? Mix up a very dilute batch and apply it on one of your test yellowing areas....

Thanks

That could be an iron shortage as well. Things that will cause severe yellowing are shortages of nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus, and iron.

Of those, I'd try iron first as an experiment. It's harmless even if vastly overapplied. My personal bet is a combination of iron and nitrogen shortage...

If you suspect the micro's, inspect the grass carefully. As in "face in the dirt". Is the yellowing evenly? Is it more pronounced on new growth or older growth blades? At the tips or along the veins? Spots on the blades or even yellowness? Do the yellow blades die and get replaced, or just languish as general ugliness?