Water Softner & Watering Lawns

JC Paint Workz · by **JC Paint Workz** » August 25th, 2011, 8:14 am

Ok let me start by saying I'm not sure if this is where this needs to go (Mods feel free to move if its not).

We have been thinking about getting a water softner for a while now. We have pretty hard water and we get build up in the bathrooms/kitchen/dishwasher pretty bad. Our main water shutoff is in the garage by the furnace. My concern is if they hook it up right there by the main line/shutoff that I'm thinking the 2 outside hose bibs would also be included in the softening. We live on a slab so theres no real way to access the plumbing. So if the hose bibs are included on the mainline and will be softened this means I would have to bypass the softner everytime I want to water the lawn. Am I correct in this thinking?

Also on a side note. If I was to get a irrigation system will they run the main line off the main water supply in my yard (where the city shut off is) or will they run it off my house supply line? I have been thinking about it(when the funds are right) getting one just cant bite the bullet anytime soon. Its just driving me crazy thinking about if I do get a softner how it will affect my watering and inconvience.

glenforest · by **glenforest** » August 25th, 2011, 8:39 am

I can't answer the softener question. But I'm having an irrigation system installed next month, and the contractor said they would tap into my water line immediately after my water meter.

bpgreen · by **bpgreen** » August 25th, 2011, 12:52 pm

I've never installed a water softener, but I thought you were supposed to install it so that the outside faucets were not softened and I think the cold water in the kitchen is supposed to bypass it also. Otherwise, you get too much salt on the lawn and in your cooking.

JC Paint Workz · by **JC Paint Workz** » August 25th, 2011, 12:54 pm

bpgreen wrote:I've never installed a water softener, but I thought you were supposed to install it so that the outside faucets were not softened and I think the cold water in the kitchen is supposed to bypass it also. Otherwise, you get too much salt on the lawn and in your cooking.

If I get the one I want it comes with a Reverse Osmosis system for the kitchen sink. And back to what I was saying about being on a slab I'm pretty sure the hose bibs are connected to the main supply (when I turn off the shut-off valve in the garage it kills the hose bibs too) so I dont think theres a way to bypass those.

MorpheusPA · by **MorpheusPA** » August 25th, 2011, 1:00 pm

Water softeners for lawns kind of depend. In areas with good rainfall (which includes Indiana) it won't be a problem and your water isn't nearly as hard as it could be.

The only place I'd have any issues with the idea would be more desert areas where I'd advise always irrigating such that the water goes under the root zone and flushes the salt--or bypassing the system for exterior watering if possible.

JC Paint Workz · by **JC Paint Workz** » August 25th, 2011, 1:00 pm

glenforest wrote:I can't answer the softener question. But I'm having an irrigation system installed next month, and the contractor said they would tap into my water line immediately after my water meter.

flip him a hunsky and say can you go before the meter lol wouldnt that be nice!!!!

ronert · by **ronert** » August 25th, 2011, 2:56 pm

JC Paint Workz wrote:If I get the one I want it comes with a Reverse Osmosis system for the kitchen sink.

So, that'd mean you're processing thru the softener, then thru the RO? That seems highly inefficient.

Also, keep in mind, for a sink, you're going to want a tank (Similar to a well tank with a bladder) installed post-membrane so you don't have just a trickle of water. Most membranes are 75-100 gal/DAY. That's only 3-4 gallons per HOUR. You are likely used to seeing 2-3 gallons per MINUTE now.

If you're getting an RO, make sure you protect it with some sort of filter upstream. I'd recommend three stages - 10mm/5mm/1mm. That'll help your membrane last longer.

And finally, think about your waste water. In general, for every 1 gallon of RO water, you're going to be 'producing' about 3-4 gallons of 'waste water'. That's still VERY usable for some things.

JC Paint Workz · by **JC Paint Workz** » August 25th, 2011, 3:09 pm

Theres a tank that goes under the sink. I'm not 100% sure how they hook it up but to me it sounds like it would be running off the sink water (which would be softened) then through the RO system. Here is the link to the system that Aqua Systems locally is sellingSoftener & RO system

ronert · by **ronert** » August 25th, 2011, 3:37 pm

JC - Looked @ your link. Looks like they have a two-stage filter (YUK) upstream of their 50gpd membrane. Take a look at the difference between their Pure Choice Reverse Osmosis System (what you'd end up with) and their Pure Choice Central Reverse Osmosis System.

- 100 gpd vs 50 gpd (nice to have, not necessary)
- 6 gallon storage tank vs 2.5 gallon storage tank (really good to have, 2..5 gal will slow to a trickle after you drain about 1.5 gal.)
- 3 stage pre filter vs 2 stage pre filter (really, really good to have, saves the membrane, less maint.)

Actually, I'd DIY the thing myself, but given the choices on that site ... I'd really push for the 3 stage pre-filter unit and, to some extent, the 6 gal tank. The membrane 'rate' isn't nearly as important for the sink. The tank size is what matters for that to function nicely.

JC Paint Workz · by **JC Paint Workz** » August 25th, 2011, 3:43 pm

Im not to sure I even want the RO system they just had a package deal (Pricing on the special not shown on the site) but in the end it was darn near like only 100 bucks more for the RO system. They told me I probably wouldnt be able to use the Central because I'm on a slab and that with IN freezing temps it wouldnt be a good idea to run the supply lines through the attic incase of freezing/bursting and it would flood my ceiling and they wont warrant it and I would have to run the lines myself if I was to do that. Same with running line to the Ice Maker since its on the other side of the kitchen then the sink. He said if it was on the same side he could run through cabinets. I just really want a softner and for the deal it was nice only having like 100 more and got the RO system with their "Home Show" special they are running.

glenforest · by **glenforest** » August 26th, 2011, 9:02 am

JC Paint Workz wrote:
glenforest wrote:I can't answer the softener question. But I'm having an irrigation system installed next month, and the contractor said they would tap into my water line immediately after my water meter.

flip him a hunsky and say can you go before the meter lol wouldnt that be nice!!!!

SW315 · by **SW315** » August 26th, 2011, 10:18 am

bpgreen wrote:I've never installed a water softener, but I thought you were supposed to install it so that the outside faucets were not softened and I think the cold water in the kitchen is supposed to bypass it also. Otherwise, you get too much salt on the lawn and in your cooking.

I have one installed on everything but the outside faucets, they are tapped in before the softener. If you are on a slab you don't have much choice of what gets the softener and what doesn't. From what I have read the amount of salt coming out of the softener is minimal at best. If you are worried about the amount of salt you can buy the Potassium Chloride salt bags that are about 3x the cost...

ronert wrote:
JC Paint Workz wrote:If I get the one I want it comes with a Reverse Osmosis system for the kitchen sink.

So, that'd mean you're processing thru the softener, then thru the RO? That seems highly inefficient.

Also, keep in mind, for a sink, you're going to want a tank (Similar to a well tank with a bladder) installed post-membrane so you don't have just a trickle of water. Most membranes are 75-100 gal/DAY. That's only 3-4 gallons per HOUR. You are likely used to seeing 2-3 gallons per MINUTE now.

If you're getting an RO, make sure you protect it with some sort of filter upstream. I'd recommend three stages - 10mm/5mm/1mm. That'll help your membrane last longer.

And finally, think about your waste water. In general, for every 1 gallon of RO water, you're going to be 'producing' about 3-4 gallons of 'waste water'. That's still VERY usable for some things.

You are right about needing to protect the RO membrane. Chlorine is what will kill an RO membrane. Running water through a softener before the RO is actually a good way to do it. The RO membrane can filter out the salt easier than the calcium and magnesium. You need a good sediment filter and a good carbon filter, maybe two if the first carbon filter doesn't get all the chlorine/chloramines out of the water. I have a dual membrane RO system for making my water for my fish tank. I use a 0.5 micron sediment and a 0.6 micron carbon filter and I have had the same 2 membranes for several years now, that achieve a TDS of less than 10 before they go through my dual stage DI Resin..

JC Paint Workz · by **JC Paint Workz** » August 26th, 2011, 10:34 am

But I'm thinking the cost of using softened water would be crazy irrigating the lawn. I'd be adding salt daily

[ Post made via iPhone ]

SW315 · by **SW315** » August 26th, 2011, 10:44 am

Yes your salt use would increase, I'm not sure that you'd be adding salt daily. Or, like you said you will have to by-pass every time you water the lawn. Is there any way for you to re-plumb things to take the hose bibs off the softener? Does your main shut off in the garage come up out of the slab then then go right back down in to the slab?

I love being in a crawlspace...

JC Paint Workz · by **JC Paint Workz** » August 26th, 2011, 10:51 am

Yep it comes up and goes into water heater and through house. It's all under the slab. It even takes like 60 seconds before I get hot water to bathroom sinks and sometimes kitchen is just as long. I can't add insulation cause their concreted in.

It would be sweet if there was a way to have the sidebar auto bypass when I want my hose bib timers to start.

If I ever get a irrigation it's no problem cause they tap it at the meter so irrigation would not be affected by softener at all

[ Post made via iPhone ]

Josh · by **Josh** » September 3rd, 2011, 1:36 am

My house is set up the same way on a slab. My outside hose bibs are seperate from the main line. Actually when the softener was installed they ran a couple lines to outdoor bibs and labeled them "soft water, not for lawn use." Thats what I use for washing the cars. Less water spots.

Water Softner & Watering Lawns

Water Softner & Watering Lawns

Re: Water Softner & Watering Lawns

Re: Water Softner & Watering Lawns

Re: Water Softner & Watering Lawns

Re: Water Softner & Watering Lawns

Re: Water Softner & Watering Lawns

Re: Water Softner & Watering Lawns

Re: Water Softner & Watering Lawns

Re: Water Softner & Watering Lawns

Re: Water Softner & Watering Lawns

Re: Water Softner & Watering Lawns

Re: Water Softner & Watering Lawns

Re: Water Softner & Watering Lawns

Re: Water Softner & Watering Lawns

Re: Water Softner & Watering Lawns

Re: Water Softner & Watering Lawns

Who is online

Who is online